Free Will As Determinism

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John Doe

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  • #881133
    +3
    John Doe
    John Doe
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    742

    Free Will As Determinism

    Considering the thread was spammed and shut down here is a repeat. The old thread cannot be accessed; hence the mods can just delete it if they wish.

    All acts of free will, in the respect that one applies a choice, not only requires a structure from which the choice is both formed and continued (for example I like donuts because they taste good therefore I buy a donut. The structure of the donut having a specific sensation is the means from which the choice manifests, while me eating it repeats this sensation as a structure) but is a structure itself.

    1) Free will cannot exist without structure as all acts of free will require the ability to make a choice with this choice being one of structure that is both composed of further structure and composes further structure, hence free will acts as an ever present cause.

    2) Free will fundamentally lies in observation as a form of measurement where an act is fundamentally premised in an observation. I see, feel, hear, etc. (observe) a reality and in turn act on that observation to form a new observation. This observation in turn reflects on not just the other observations but provides the premise of choice relative to further actions. I may observe x and y and act through either x or y to form a new action. For example I may observe that I like donuts, but that donuts are bad for my health, hence I may either not eat the donut and care about my health, ignore my health and eat the donut, or just eat part of the donut. Whatever action I take in turn forms a new observation from which further action exists.

    3) Free will observes a connection, hence acts as a point in itself from which further measurements exist. I may choose one thing, consciously through thought or intuitively through habit, which in turn leads to another choice which repeats itself so on and so forth as ever present. In these respects free will is less of an observation of extremes but rather an act of mediation through from which structure extends through and is maintained.

    #881142
    +1
    Faust For Science
    Faust For Science
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    20670

    One question that needs to be asked is how can “free will” exist in a simulation?

    #881143
    +1
    John Doe
    John Doe
    Participant
    742

    One question that needs to be asked is how can “free will” exist in a simulation?

    It is multifaceted.

    A simulation implies an illusion, or half truth. No illusion is necessary in the face of strict determinism because it requires deception. Noone can be recieved unless there is a choice.

    Second, all choices require consequences. These consequences are basically a series of movements which stem from the choice. One choice leads to another set of movements and it reverberates. These movements, which stem from our choices, in turn form ourselves as they provide further choices. Choice cycles through choice and this results in structuring of the self, the group and the self and the group. The simulation effectively is a means where we create ourselves through our actions in the face of illusions.

    Third, a simulation is a replication of some truth. We see parts of the truth through a simulation, which is a mirror of reality. In these respects, while we may form ourselves through a simulation, the simulation teaches us about a greater reality by approximating it.

    Choice is a means of origin, it is effectively a point through which we exist as we are. We can see this practically in life where we are left with a choice, a point, where who we project through time in accords with how we decide.

    In these respects, choice much like a point in space, is effectively the origin of all things and all phenomenon as extensions of one source (necessitated by the fact they are an image or simulation) is composed of point space.

    All phenomenon, reduce themselves to points, with these points being composed of further phenomena which are composed of points. Simply staring at a point in space and walking towards it maintains the point as constant, but reality unfolds through it.

    In these respects, all reality is a generation of free will as a continual process of generation.

    #881144
    +2
    Faust For Science
    Faust For Science
    Participant
    20670

    Interesting answer.

    On a side note. I suggest you try your hand at poetry. From your posts, I believe you would find you have a talent in doing so.

    #881145
    +1
    John Doe
    John Doe
    Participant
    742

    Interesting answer.
    On a side note. I suggest you try your hand at poetry. From your posts, I believe you would find you have a talent in doing so.

    Most poetry is founded in the cycling of concepts, and in talking about the cycling of phenomenon, cycles are inevitable.

    But yeah, I have about about 30 pages of poetry. Working on a mathematical function based on cycles as well.

    #881146
    +1
    Faust For Science
    Faust For Science
    Participant
    20670

    Interesting answer.On a side note. I suggest you try your hand at poetry. From your posts, I believe you would find you have a talent in doing so.

    Most poetry is founded in the cycling of concepts, and in talking about the cycling of phenomenon, cycles are inevitable.
    But yeah, I have about about 30 pages of poetry. Working on a mathematical function based on cycles as well.

    Cool. I wish you luck in your efforts.

    #881147
    John Doe
    John Doe
    Participant
    742

    Interesting answer.On a side note. I suggest you try your hand at poetry. From your posts, I believe you would find you have a talent in doing so.

    Most poetry is founded in the cycling of concepts, and in talking about the cycling of phenomenon, cycles are inevitable.But yeah, I have about about 30 pages of poetry. Working on a mathematical function based on cycles as well.

    Cool. I wish you luck in your efforts.

    Yeah, thanks. Will need it considering the standard perspective of dealing with numbers is a strict linear format.

    Up hill battle.

    The function actually results in the number line existing through cycles. The number line is an approximation of a non linear reality.

    It also observes that each number results in a simultaneous set of numbers, so mathematics is actually multidimensional.

    It observes set theory, algebra, euclidean and a new non euclidean geometry, and arithmetic but goes a step or two beyond and observes each number as a function in itself while existing as a spatial entity.

    Each number is a set of points and lines, where a geometric shape is actually a quantity and not strictly a quality.

    #881153
    +1
    Silver Fox
    Silver Fox
    Participant
    2760

    John Doe, I have a question for you. Are you interested in writing a book? You have written a large amount of stuff here… do you have a blog? Some kind of following somewhere that is interested in these things? I’m genuinely curious. You don’t seem to be getting much interaction here so I am just wondering what is your angle on posting these highly esoteric topics. If you do have a regular following, then there are a lot of options for you. Heck, you could even get monthly pay through Patreon or something.

    "Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife." --Apostle Paul

    #881154
    John Doe
    John Doe
    Participant
    742

    John Doe, I have a question for you. Are you interested in writing a book? You have written a large amount of stuff here… do you have a blog? Some kind of following somewhere that is interested in these things? I’m genuinely curious. You don’t seem to be getting much interaction here so I am just wondering what is your angle on posting these highly esoteric topics. If you do have a regular following, then there are a lot of options for you. Heck, you could even get monthly pay through Patreon or something.

    Yeah, here and there. It is statistically inevitable. A few professors, a lecturer or two, and some random types of people here and there.

    In all truth, compared to other forums, this site has some of the worst philosophers I ran across, most of the critical thinking is relegated to providing different variations of why we are f~~~ed…that is about it.

    On a less negative note, the primary motivation behind this forum is sexual failure, which is not really a fault of the mgtow as their arguments about the nature of society are valid. And the millenials are full blown sterile in their way of life…so…

    I don’t expect much, just fishing.

    But yeah, you never answered why my arguments are against your theology.

    #881155
    Silver Fox
    Silver Fox
    Participant
    2760

    In all truth, compared to other forums, this site has some of the worst philosophers I ran across, most of the critical thinking is relegated to providing different variations of why we are f~~~ed…that is about it.

    That may be true, but if it is, then I suggest you are not going to achieve much through your current methods. If, as you say, the folks here are some of the worst philosophers you’ve run across, then starting with these esoteric topics are not going to help these men. You’re throwing them into the deep end of the pool and expecting them to swim. People aren’t going to like it.

    On a less negative note, the primary motivation behind this forum is sexual failure, which is not really a fault of the mgtow as their arguments about the nature of society are valid. And the millenials are full blown sterile in their way of life…so…

    I am scornful of millennials as well but I don’t think they’re the only demographic here. There are quite a few men from all ages, some of whom post quite often (or at least they used to).

    I’m not sure what you mean by “sexual failure” being the primary motivation behind this forum. This comment raises too many questions to address here… but I suppose I will ask why you are here in the first place if you see this place as full of bad philosophers, misguided millennials, and sexual failures? Why are you trying to reach this audience?

    But yeah, you never answered why my arguments are against your theology.

    I did not bother answering your comments because you were consistently making straw man arguments against me. You were asking questions like, “So God did not become man?” and “Is man only temporal?” I believe these were dishonest questions on your part. You were not trying to actually discover what I believe. You were only searching for something to trip me up. This is the hallmark sign of a troll. I could have spent time answering your accusations but it is almost never worth it to engage with a troll.

    If you are genuinely interested in what I believe, then I would be glad to have a discussion. Furthermore, if I misread your intent, then I will happily retract my accusation that you are trolling. But I can only go with what I have seen thus far.

    "Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife." --Apostle Paul

    #881230
    +1
    IMickey503
    iMickey503
    Participant
    8783

    How I see it:

    A racist with a tan walks into a Porn store and sticks his dick in a glory hole. Its a black person on the other side.

    THe simulation part?

    it’s a Black guy who happens to be an Albino.

    You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

    #881244
    +1
    John Doe
    John Doe
    Participant
    742

    How I see it:
    A racist with a tan walks into a Porn store and sticks his dick in a glory hole. Its a black person on the other side.
    THe simulation part?
    it’s a Black guy who happens to be an Albino.

    Looking at the comment, below it is actually wrong: “you can put cheese on a potato but…it is actually is cheese and a potato.”

    #881245
    John Doe
    John Doe
    Participant
    742

    In all truth, compared to other forums, this site has some of the worst philosophers I ran across, most of the critical thinking is relegated to providing different variations of why we are f~~~ed…that is about it.

    That may be true, but if it is, then I suggest you are not going to achieve much through your current methods. If, as you say, the folks here are some of the worst philosophers you’ve run across, then starting with these esoteric topics are not going to help these men. You’re throwing them into the deep end of the pool and expecting them to swim. People aren’t going to like it.

    On a less negative note, the primary motivation behind this forum is sexual failure, which is not really a fault of the mgtow as their arguments about the nature of society are valid. And the millenials are full blown sterile in their way of life…so…

    I am scornful of millennials as well but I don’t think they’re the only demographic here. There are quite a few men from all ages, some of whom post quite often (or at least they used to).
    I’m not sure what you mean by “sexual failure” being the primary motivation behind this forum. This comment raises too many questions to address here… but I suppose I will ask why you are here in the first place if you see this place as full of bad philosophers, misguided millennials, and sexual failures? Why are you trying to reach this audience?

    But yeah, you never answered why my arguments are against your theology.

    I did not bother answering your comments because you were consistently making straw man arguments against me. You were asking questions like, “So God did not become man?” and “Is man only temporal?” I believe these were dishonest questions on your part. You were not trying to actually discover what I believe. You were only searching for something to trip me up. This is the hallmark sign of a troll. I could have spent time answering your accusations but it is almost never worth it to engage with a troll.
    If you are genuinely interested in what I believe, then I would be glad to have a discussion. Furthermore, if I misread your intent, then I will happily retract my accusation that you are trolling. But I can only go with what I have seen thus far.

    I really dont care if you take the questions are personal or not, they still exist.

    If the above contradicts your theology, it is just common sense to ask what is the nature of your theology.

    #881509
    +1
    Gravel Pit
    Gravel Pit
    Participant
    6742

    Even the title is pure lunacy. Freewill “as” Determinism? They’re mutually exclusive pal.

    Either freewill exists or it doesn’t

    Either energy and matter follow rules of physics or they don’t.

    The title supposes they can coexist. So before we can even begin, we already have a Christian with an unshakable conviction working backwards trying to make the world fit HIS script.

    It doesn’t work like that Johnny boy.

    Freewill (or Freenil as it should be called) is by definition, the overturning of physical laws. So it’s one Iron Law for how a planet orbits a star, but another law for which shirt Johnny will wear today? You can’t have it both ways sir.

    I’ll just set the record straight for any poor bastard that walks in here and loses IQ points trying to understand WTF John Doe is trying to preach

    FREEWILL doesn’t exist. Its a delusion.

    This has been confirmed by scientists and philosophers for hundreds of years now, ESPECIALLY in modern times where we could use technology to prove it beyond any theologian’s doubt. No doubt, it’s amusing that Christians are known for their faith (as if faith were a virtue, lol) yet when you put inarguable facts in front of them, suddenly they’re more skeptical than skeptics! They cover their ears and scream, “That’s not what my Sunday School teacher told me!”

    Well, no sources needed for this easy task… try to pay attention

    #881519
    Gravel Pit
    Gravel Pit
    Participant
    6742

    Objective Proof against Freewill
    Energy and Matter are governed by Newtons Laws. The conservation of energy and mass. Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. What all this boils down to is, Murphys Law (only what can happen, will happen) Put poetically, all of existence, all energy and matter in spacetime (there is no other magical realm called metaphysical, that is Christians trying to sound intelligent), all of it is a continuing domino drop avalanche that can only turn out one way, the way that it turns out.

    An object hits another object with a specific force and angle. A reaction occurs as directly resulting from that specific amount of force and angle. This occurs on a quantum scale as well as a gargantuan scale involving entire galaxies being pulled by dark matter. Nothing is free from these causes, nothing resides outside Causality

    #881520
    Gravel Pit
    Gravel Pit
    Participant
    6742

    Furthermore (we don’t need more but just for people like John Doe) we have experiments and test galore, confirming that people do not choose to choose what they choose. Their ‘choices’ are little more than memories after* their brain already selected what it will do. You read that correctly and can confirm it in hundreds of published works and scientific journals, we can hook your ass up to an f MRI and start presenting you choices and WE can spot what you will do BEFORE you do it! So where is your freewill John?

    #881521
    Gravel Pit
    Gravel Pit
    Participant
    6742

    Those experiments have been repeated with people during brain surgery where we take measurements directly from their brain. There is no delay when they have the head opened up and are reading straight from the spot. Its beyond confirmed here. freewill is a delusion, proven with science and math.

    #881522
    Gravel Pit
    Gravel Pit
    Participant
    6742

    Subjectively, freewill also lacks all credibility.

    The part of YOU, that you think makes decisions and consciously decides courses of action in your life. That is an illusion. Your conscious is nothing but a waiting room where you watch emotions and thoughts come in through one door, and reactions to outside variables barging in from another…

    You do not choose what thought you will have next. You have no choice about what attitude or emotion or idea which will occur to you next. YOU are a passenger on that train. YOU think it’s YOU that is controlling it, however, its just NEW to you… really, by the time you find out, its already old news. LOL

    And it wouldn’t be a freewill slam down without some quotes from Sam Harris:

    “We’re downstream from causes of which we’re unconscious and could not possibly be conscious of. And yet our next decision will come out of a wilderness of prior causes that we didn’t intend and dont know what they are until after they’ve already happened…”

    So there you have it. For people more interested in the topic, READ THE BOOKS. there are many. The implications of freenil are far reaching. I also made this Sam Harris salute about 2 months ago…

    #881524
    Monk
    Monk
    Participant
    11469

    If there is no free will, then there can be no responsibility, and therefore no crime.

    #881527
    +1
    Gravel Pit
    Gravel Pit
    Participant
    6742

    If there is no free will, then there can be no responsibility, and therefore no crime.

    A common fallacy on this subject.

    Responsibility and Accountability are two different things.

    A criminal is still accountable for his misdeeds and the vicious character of his mind. For that, we lock him up and keep him away from the public. He is held accountable. Though we do not blame him or hold him responsible for the variables that made him the monster that he is. All the same, in the interest of the public’s well being, we lock up criminals and hold people ACCOUNTABLE.

    Just because you dont like a result of illuminating FreeNIL, doesnt mean it isnt true. And in this case, its not an argument because the knowledge of freenil doesn’t excuse crime or misbeahvior. It doesn’t make your life any less important.

    You still need to acquire skills and seek the happiness that you seek

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