- 2016-12-03 at 11:27 AM#361898+23
Some one will read this account and say there is no f~~~ing way this is going to happen to me. My special snowflake is, umm special, and she loves me. Our kids are just the most perfect little darlings. My life is wonderful, good job, awesome house, big ass suv with dvd players for the kids, good times are here to stay!!!
Some one reading this will feel little rumblings of discord in your happy home.
Someone reading this will be considering marriage and wonder what is this MGTOW s~~~?
Maybe this will help you. This was my experience. YMMV.
March 2015 I had my last court showdown with my ex c~~~ over child support
While I was in college I was ordered to have a job for 20 hours a week, paying $8.25 per hour. I was also ordered to pay $35 a week in child support. I was going for an education certification. Anyone in Education knows not to work during student teaching…duh I’m in an elementary school from 6am until 5pm, then spending several hours a day writing up lessons for the next day, grading papers, and doing assignments for college professors. My day started at 4am, driving an hour to school, made copies and prepared for the school day, taught all day, did stuff with my cooperating teacher after school, drive an hour home, prepare lessons, homework, etc until 10pm.
When the f~~~ was I going to work this bulls~~~ $8 and hour job for 20 hours a week? Thanks Judge F~~~wit!
Ok, I made it through that s~~~. I got my first real job since 2001, teaching in a school two states away from my kids, the court and the c~~~. I was making more than $8 an hour, and so the c~~~ needed to adjust the child support and the visitation schedule. Being 1000 miles away precluded me from the normal weekend visitation thing.
We went to court during my spring break…the only time I could appear in court to deal with this s~~~.
Went to court, I asked for a lower than the 28% automatic assraping for child support. I made $30K and her income was almost $180K. I asked her one more time to let me have the kids so they could afford to go to college. 28% of what I made was $7500, 28% of what she made was $50,000. I would set up a trust for the money…college and car plus money to live on. I would not be able to use the money for anything else.
C~~~ told me to go f~~~ myself…even though this would have been in effect a forced savings plan to benefit the kids only. She told me to f~~~ off out of spite…I had a good plan and she hated it, just like every good idea I had when we were married. Her own lawyer loved the idea. C~~~ told the lawyer to f~~~ off too. The look on my lawyer’s face was priceless. What client tells the lawyer to f~~~ off? lol
So the outcome…I asked for a reduced child support deal based on the huge disparity in income. $30K for me, $180K for her. Judge F~~~wit asked me if I had lived up to the visitation terms, every other weekend. I said, no. I live 1000 miles away, it would take me 2 days to drive to the pick up point, and then two days to go back to my home. I teach in a public school, I can’t take that time off. Judge F~~~wit looked at me and said because I didn’t live up to that part of the deal, I would have to pay then entire 28%. It cost money to take kids to their events, feed and clothe them etc. I was stunned. The c~~~ had 2 houses, 4 cars and a live in Chad Thunderc~~~, made $180,000 a year and had guaranteed raises of 20% every year. And I got s~~~ on, again. Thank you Judge F~~~wit.
To make it worse, the new child support order would be retroactive to the date of hire at the school district, when I made more then $8 an hour. Thanks Judge F~~~wit again for your everlasting benevolence. F~~~ me twice. I owed an additional $5200, payable in 60 days. Supposed to be immediately, but she cut me a break…Thanks Judge F~~~wit.
The upside. There’s an upside? No alimony. No paying college expenses for the kids. At least Judge F~~~wit understood that part of the argument, maybe my lawyer explained that to the c~~~. I have nothing, I make little and taking any more would result in suicide al a Robin Williams. I think someone should explain this s~~~ to women. Taking a man’s cash after divorce is the worst form of theft imaginable.
I asked the c~~~ if I could see the kids later that day before I drove home…1000 miles. She said we would meet. I only saw one of my kids there, my younger daughter just turned 13 years old. I hadn’t seen her in a year. She had this whole prepared speech where she told me to go the f~~~ away…I wasn’t worth having a relationship with. She told me to my face that she was tired of me lying to her about everything, and that it was my fault for the divorce and she hated me for what I had done to the family. She never wanted to see me again, and her sister felt the same way but was too upset to come and see me and confront me. What child has this prepared statement about the utility of relationships, and past utility has nothing to do with continuing a relationship…hell I never even heard of Briffaults Law until I found this website.
Briffault’s Law: The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.
I snuck a glance at the c~~~, big s~~~ eating grin on her face.
Just to review…I was a stay at home dad, volunteering in the kids schools and going to Jr college to get a teacher cert when the c~~~ suddenly announced she wasn’t happy and wanted a divorce. She did this move over breakfast. How in the f~~~ing f~~~ was the divorce my f~~~ing fault? F~~~!
Three days after I was removed by the police from my house, Chad Thunderc~~~ moved in. I had an 8 week protective order slapped on me, no visits, no calls, no nothing. Do ya think the lying c~~~ told the kids some bulls~~~?
Ok enough back story, If I told you more, and you are a lesser man than I, you would shoot yerself out of sympathy.
So after the court ass raping and after the face slapping from my daughter, I faced a 1000 mile drive home. I sat in the parkinglot, in my car for three hours and cried. I could not move. Stunned by what had happened to me. I cried for 3 straight hours in a little car, and the sun was going down. My little girl should have just pulled out a gun and shot me, I would have felt better had she done that. I was smart enough to leave my gun at home. My family knew I was going to have a s~~~ty day, they talked to me on the cell phone during the drive home. They thought I was going to do something stupid.
So, I grieved the loss of my children in a f~~~ing parking lot for three hours. That task was finished, now what? Where did I stand financially? 28% of my income, my gross income before taxes, retirement insurance and other bulls~~~ was $650. I took home $1200, and my rent was $575. I had monthly expenses of about $400. The Court was going to take $650 out of the remaining $1200 I made. Thank you judge F~~~wit…I can either be homeless, or default on my expenses. S~~~. S~~~ S~~~ S~~~. before you ask…there were no second job opportunities for me, and if there were, c~~~ would get 28% of that too…including another court visit, pay the lawyer lol I would lose more money than I made.
This was March. My rent was paid up to March 31. What happens April 1? I couldn’t afford to live there until August, when the lease ran out. I had to buy my way out, two months rent was the buy out. F~~~
April 1 I paid the landlord 2 months rent. I shut off the utilities. I still had a job, and my car was paid off. I had just paid the 6 month insurance on the car.
March 20 something I drove an hour to a sporting goods store and bought camping gear. I went to the RV and campground on the edge of town and bought 2 months. I was living in a tent, going to my work in a public school. Spring in a tent in this region was unpleasant. 35 at night and sometimes 90 in the day. constant wind, blowing dust and tumbleweeds up from Oklahoma. I checked my finances again, I could live this way until August if I had too, but after that, I could not say.
April 15 I got the word my contract was not renewed. S~~~. I needed a new job.
Saved up enough money to move to Florida with my parents…at age 44. F~~~. I went looking for a job there in Florida, no dice… not licenced and the process takes too long. S~~~.
I went back to the state where the c~~~ lived…lived on a fold out couch at my bro’s place. I was licenced there…35 interviews in 20 days, no dice. F~~~, the summer is running out. Back to the state I just left and got a job 100 miles from where I started, and it paid just enough to keep me in an apartment. $200 a month more made the difference between the tent and an apartment. Thanks Judge F~~~wit!!!
So what do you do when your kids tell you to f~~~ off…
First you cry. Cry like a baby until you can’t see straight. Do not do drugs or drink alcohol. That s~~~ will make things much much worse for you. Just let it all out in one big dump. Then arise as a new man.
You are a rational thinking creature. Stop and think. losing the kids is painful, not the end of the f~~~ing world. You are not the only man that had children taken away. You are not the last. You have other immediate problems to deal with, namely you. You need to figure out just what the f~~~ you are going to do tomorrow, and the day after that.
Take inventory of what you do have in your life. Have a job? Great, do everything you can to keep it. Money coming in keeps the court from f~~~ing with you some more. Yes, you are now a slave to a c~~~ that you never want to see again…but the sex was so mindblowing!!!! Idiot.
Your kids are lost to you. If they do not want to see you, stay the f~~~ away. They have made their wishes known to you. Do you want to go back to court and be locked up for some bulls~~~? Do you want an order of protection? No. Fine. Your kids are lost. Lost is like dead, but not dead. Lost is inaccessible, unknown condition, gone. But you still have to pay the c~~~. Focus on that. Number one job is your Job. Job number 2 is stay out of jail. Once you are divorced, you are the plaintiff, you are the criminal. The chances of you ending up in jail for something stupid and irrelevant are GREATLY increased.
The nights will suck. Every one of them. You dream of past good times and then the scene changes to some horrible thing ripping you kids from you. You wonder what they are doing now. Is the Chad Thunderc~~~ and his kids beating on your kid? What do you do then? F~~~, this eats at you constantly. F~~~ it all f~~~ that f~~~ing c~~~! You see other dads with their kids. They are having a good time…where’s your kid? I don’t know, they are lost to me. is the answer I give, then conversation stops, then people slowly wander away. They figure out that talking about their kid is making you feel like s~~~.
Holidays will suck even more. Christmas is the worst, Easter is the worst, Thanksgiving is the worst. Kids birthdays will tear you f~~~ing apart. You will remember and replay in your head all the good times you helped create for your children and you will crave this good feeling like a drug. It is life itself. But you are denied all of it. I can not tell you what evil I would commit to hold my children’s hands one more time, one more push on the swing. one more shared coloring page. One more pb&j sandwich on a bike trail with my kids. Please. Just one more chance to tell them that I love them. I want to see one more smile before I die.
God dam I called my dad two days before he died and thanked him for the way I grew up and glad that he was there for me. My own kids won’t do that for me. F~~~. They won’t know when I die. f~~~ again.
I must be an idiot for going into education, but there is something here some greater purpose for me here. Most of the kids in my class are in single mom households. They don’t have dads and I don’t have kids. These kids pull more out of me than I have to give. I am drained at the end of the day.
Chances are pretty good you and I will never see your own kids ever again. The c~~~ thinks she has hurt you in some huge way. Nope…she has not. She has f~~~ed her self and the children every day from here on out. Good job c~~~. You are so focused on the sentimentality of all the good times in the past and the future good times lost. Good. You get the golden goodness of those memories. The c~~~ gets the s~~~ of day to day living with these rugrats and all the drama. I missed all the drama and bulls~~~ of my older daughters highschool dating, prom, drama homework, hormones, learning to drive, college visits, homework grades, boyfriends, expensive toys and hobbies of the month, I missed my daughters jr high bulls~~~ of braces, boys, phonecalls, band s~~~, drama, homework, hormones, bleeding in weird places, and anxiety of losing older daughter to college. I have been set free of all that drama and bulls~~~ and can focus on fixing my damage and work toward a better future. I can only hope.
Going back to college I was in classes with 20 something girls. Most of them were part of divorced families. They has nothing but spite for their fathers. Spite, hatred, never want to see him again…My children were younger and I did not want this for my kids. I tried to be there for my kids as much as possible. But in the end it didn’t matter, only soothed my guilty conscience for not being there every day. f~~~. Every day I could spend with them would be amazing whatever it cost. And cost it did.
For me missing all of that…maybe worth $650 a month to let the c~~~ do it all. I can’t be blamed for when it all goes to s~~~. C~~~ cut me out of everything. I’m 1000 miles away. You want it all, c~~~, here take it. The Greeks have a word for this moutza..here take it…the good and the bad. Take it all and choke on it, c~~~!
So, no contact will be the thing that saves you. Do not torture yourself with pictures of your kids. For me, I had lost all my possessions when I downsized to the tent. I had no room for sentimentality in the tent. All of that was stripped away and chucked into a dumpster. I have birth certificates of my kids. and I know where there are a couple you tube vids with my kids in it. That’s it.
Do not contact your children without written permission from the c~~~. Even think long and hard about contacting the c~~~. Without written permission from the c~~~, you are risking harassment. Legal definition of harassment is any unwelcome communication. The legal definition of things will bite you in the ass generally, this one will get you put in jail. Communication takes many forms…a chalk mark on the street is communication. Anything the c~~~ thinks is unwelcome communication will end up with some antiterrorist police taskforce jackboot on your neck. A birthday card with a fluffy lamb…harassment! a note congratulating for Student of the Month…Harassment! a post it note with a smiley face RED ALERT HARASSMENT!!!!!!! two banana stickers on one banana must be a secret code to the children!!!! Arrest that man! colluding with the kids and undermining the c~~~! Save the c~~~ and the children from the MAN!
I wasted hours and hours planning, scheming, saving up for some means of taking my kids and running away and disappearing. Do not let these thoughts enter your head. Your rational brain will think up 12 different ways for this to work. You will not be successful. You will f~~~ this up in some little way, and then you are truly f~~~ed. Abducting your own children will not work unless you are going to the f~~~ing moon. Even there you will be hunted down and you will never see your children again.
I spent over $200K to preserve my kids right to see me. This was more than 70 court visits over 6 years. Every day in court cost me at least $2000, and I always lost. No, wait, I won one time. I got an extra day with my kids, that I have yet to collect. lol. Most divorce cases have a folder, maybe an inch thick. I have seen a couple cases with a box. My divorce has a flatbed cart. I had to pay for the f~~~ing cart…WTF. I have copies of the documents…something like 200,000 pages of documents. A pallet of those bundles of paper. A ream is 500 pages. f~~~. There is one court case with 2 permanent bookcases in the courtroom. These idiots fight almost weekly.
So what else is there? I spent more money that I should have fighting a fight I could not win using logic that had no place in court, pleading to a Judge F~~~wit who won awards for fairness from local woman’s advocacy groups, giving money to a lawyer who put his teacher wife through grad school and probably costing me a shot at a job, all to have my 13 year old girl tell me to f~~~ off.
I hope your burden is easier brothers. Right now, I am living day to day, waiting for the day I am set free from this c~~~, the child support order and my children’s transition into legal adult hood. That day will be May 7, 2020.
I hope to Christ that you do not go through what I went through and still carry around. I wish there was someone with an objective point of view who could tell me what happens when you get married and she stabs you in the back through the heart and out the left eye. Maybe I woulda listened. Family bitching about the girl before marriage…nah what do they know, we are in looooooooove. Some dude tells me I’ll spend two months living in a tent, happy for the air mattress insulating me from the frozen ground. hmmm maybe this guy has a point.
Good luck with your deal. 1252 days left2016-12-03 at 11:35 AM#361904+14
We are here for you brother. Anytime you need to vent we will be here.
That is an assload of f~~~ right there.2016-12-03 at 11:38 AM#361905+9
It is a real fact that kids get wiser as they get older. In this, they realize that mom was telling only her side of the story, and they come to appreciate dad’s side. Let us hope.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?2016-12-03 at 11:53 AM#361916+10
sorry for the long ass novel.
what kills me is how huge the fight was…we are not millionaire celebrities, just two idiots who met in college, made an oops baby and did the best we could, then another kid, she had fantastic success working and I stayed home. Then it went off the rails. F~~~. Why? because she wanted some chad she knew in highschool. Are you kidding me? She put us through hell so some f~~~ she knew in highschool could bang her? what?
lol got married at the court house, got divorced in the same court house, and I was held in contempt in the court house. I hate that place. If I was king of the world, I would level that place with a nuke strike.2016-12-03 at 12:04 PM#361920+3
I would level that place with a nuke strike.
Shakespeare put a line in one of his plays, “kill all the lawyers.” So far, it ain’t happening.
BTW, I’m on Shakespeare’s side on this one.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?2016-12-03 at 12:14 PM#361928+6
The other thing I struggle with is do I want my kids back in my life.
Last time I saw my older daughter we were in a forest preserve learning how to drive a stick shift car. She just turned 15 and had a permit.
Younger daughter, last time I saw her before the last time we spent the weekend playing soccer, riding bikes around a college campus and skipping stones on a pond.
I don’t want to lose these good things with a flood of s~~~ 10 years from now, and blame and shame hitting all three of us. I just don’t know. Distance keeps this crap far out of reach, and out of mind.
Some day my kids will realize what a pos their mom was. When I met the c~~~, she was a wild party girl, 20 years old and full of divorce rage. So f~~~ing vulnerable, she was just happy for any male attention, she was a 6. I’m not amazing hell I’m a 6 on a good day. we had compatible body parts, and I listened to her bleat on about divorce s~~~. I didn’t care as long as she got naked later. She didn’t care about being f~~~ed, she had my undivided attention.
I am living in fear of my kids turning out that way, too. Not a lot I can do to prevent it. I’m out whether I care to be or not. I don’t have anything in common with my kids except dna and the absolute ass f~~~ing that their mother did to the three of us.
s~~~. The whole forgive me Father for I know not what I do is just so biblical, so perfect. S~~~. how do you not grant forgiveness when asked. I don’t know what to do when they come back to me. That opens me up to all kinds of vulnerabilities. I don’t want to be destroyed again. maybe that is why MGTOW feels good…its ok to walk away from s~~~ like this out of self preservation.2016-12-03 at 12:19 PM#361935+2
My prayers are with you brother.
As the kids grow up they will want to know what happened. .
Then they’ll see how the mother and the system railroaded you.
Until then, stay strong and please know we are here for you.2016-12-03 at 12:21 PM#361937+2
Man, your story always puts things into perspective. As some other stories around here. Hang in there.
The choices we make, not the chances we take, determine our destiny2016-12-03 at 12:21 PM#361938+3
Do you really think The Universe cars what you want? Face reality, and deal with it under the laws and customs that apply on the planet you are inhabiting.
Never mind what you “want” do what is possible to maximize your desired outcome, but stick to what is real.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?2016-12-03 at 12:25 PM#361941+5
Regarding your kids, you have two things to hold onto.
1. They will come to their senses about you someday. Eventually they will get tired of their mother’s s~~~. The day will come when they will tell HER to f~~~ off (like they did to you), and then they will wonder if Dad really was not the bad guy, after all. And you’ve been waiting patiently for this day for a long time.
2. Keep the good memories with your kids. Find a place inside your mind and lock those memories where they won’t be corrupted. Don’t obsess over those memories. Just know that they are there, the good times really happened, and that nothing and nobody can take those memories away from you. The only person who can corrupt those good memories is you, yourself. So don’t let yourself do that.
I’m really sorry this happened, man.
We fool ourselves in thinking that because we are so modern, and that civilization is so advanced, that we are somehow different from the savagery of the past. The reality is that injustice still prevails, even in the heart of civilization. Take comfort in knowing that you are on the right side, even when the system, in all its pompous grandeur, tells you that you’re wrong.
"Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife." --Apostle Paul2016-12-03 at 1:26 PM#361990+4
Jesus brother your story is terrible, this is why so many of us go to bed at night hoping the ex just drops dead.
I’m in agreement with silver fox I think in most cases as kids get older they see the dark side of their mothers.
I would like to address one part of your story.
You asked yourself if you would take back your kids if they came back to you.
I think the answer is of course you would.
I never met a father that would hold a lifelong grudge and turn away from his daughter.
I’m not a very spiritual man but you have my prayers tonight.
One last thing…. you have an inner strength that’s very rare these days.
"You can either love women or understand them, you can't do both". Truth over everything2016-12-03 at 1:36 PM#361996+3
Family and kids?
Think twice guys.2016-12-03 at 1:44 PM#362002+5
Solo MAN’S WisdomParticipant
“What to do when your kids tell you they don’t want a relationship with you”
Tell them you love them and will be available if they change their minds. It took me nearly 35 years to understand that my mother lied to me constantly about my father. The belief in a lie is a powerful influence. Thankfully, I was able to repair the relationship with my Dad, before he passed away. It took a lot of time and patience on his part just to let me come to my own conclusions.
Your children are paying attention to your behavior as well as their mother’s. Be the adult, and they will notice.2016-12-03 at 2:05 PM#362024+3
I have known guys who were brainwashed against their Dad, but later got to know them and find they like him just fine. They realized theve been lied to.You never know whats going to happen down the road.2016-12-03 at 3:39 PM#362088+1
this s~~~ is killing me. I hate thinking about this. I suspect before 2020 I would be a little guarded. The c~~~ could still come after me. After 2020 then I am dealing with a legal adult and the child support thing is terminated, then I think my tune will change.
I may never see them again, and I think I’m ok with that.
Thanks for that little nugget.
I sent my oldest one last letter before she tuned 18 because her website was causing me professional harm…in that note I told the kids that my door was always open to them later in life.
maybe I am so comfortable in my isolation that the possibility of being included in their life is a little scary. Right not I have silence and lack of drama. I am liking this solitude. but I know this is doing damage to me.
S~~~. All this deep thinking is just p~~~ing me off again.2016-12-03 at 3:55 PM#362102+4
I went through a similar situation to yours.
Except, I won custody of the children due to the fact that mother abandoned the home and moved 2000 miles away to be with her teenage boyfriend that she had reconnected with on Internet. Etc.
The result was that my kids wanted mommy and made my life hell. Calling 911 etc. (Their mother was telling them how to destroy daddy so they could be with their mommy, etc)
Like you say, it was hell. I finally had to send them to their mother. Didn’t see them for ten years.
Then boom, they grew up and started pinging me. They came back to live with me as young adults but they are f~~~ed. They are the most horrible human beings. All they know is how to lie, manipulate and destroy others. They have the nature of their mother. They think they are entitled to do whatever they want to whomever they want to.
They don’t care. Their mother did that to them. F~~~ um
Peace brothers2016-12-03 at 5:06 PM#362176+2
darksith, I feel for ya. That is my fear. They come back dripping with toxic crap, after I have healed and improved my life.
it is unlikely that i’ll have the nice kids I remember them being. When they find me again in a few years, they may be damaged, manipulative, robotic, neurotic, toxic. We used to play toontown together, play ball together, go to museums and road side attractions together. They used to ask my opinion on things.
That time is gone. Those children are lost. One child just started college in Chicago. lost. I recognize that my kids would have grown up and moved on. I’m cool with that. A mutual parting of the ways so they can grow up is one thing. To be told by a 13 year old kid to f~~~ off is another.2016-12-03 at 5:45 PM#362215+6
In few years time your kids will try and contact you (not because they miss you but because they need money), when that happens you need to stand tall and throw all that s~~~ right back in their faces, tell them to go begging to thunderc~~~ for college fees as the bank of f~~~ you is closed to c~~~s-in-training.
Marriage is the process of finding out what kind of man your wife would have preferred.2016-12-03 at 7:02 PM#362252+3
Just try to stay gentle, cautious, and patient.
I too am a man that has a 15teen year old daughter.
Let your C~~~! Ex wife play herself out. Her story will eventually get old.
Your two daughters will see her eventually mistreat the Chad that she is with.
And the they will re-evaluate the whole thing.
One thing many MGTOW men dismiss…. they think that Chads or So called Alpha males(Christ I hate using that term) are exempt from female nature. They are not!
Just look at several so called Alphas. Arnold Swarznagger, Johnny Depp, Jeremy Renner, Brad Pitt, all of these guys tAken to the cleaners. Remain strong I really believe your daughters will come back to you.
"You can either love women or understand them, you can't do both". Truth over everything2016-12-03 at 7:19 PM#362262
I can only say do what you need to do, to not lose your own mind.
I think I’m just flapping my yap though.
My life experience has conditioned me to mostly shut down, and tell people to “f~~~ off then”. I have learned to be ok with that. I think most men on the other hand can still be hurt by that.
Best wishes for a better solution to you though.
There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it
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